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09/09/10 at 10:11am
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RE: Decisions, decisions (Read 926 times)
firefighterjake
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RE: Decisions, decisions
07/20/10 at 1:21pm
 
For several weeks now I have had a dilemna . . . a decision . . . and try as I can I cannot come up with a final decision and so I'm turning to you folks for input . . . usually I don't have as difficult a time coming to a decision, but on this one issue I keep going back and forth since there is no clear cut answer as I see it.
 
My dilemna is this . . . my 2000 Toyota 4Runner has a badly rusting rear differential. I've fixed it now with a temporary patch (well the garage fixed it) . . . but since the first patch failed I don't have a lot of faith in the second patch. The first patch held for several months . . . before puking up gear oil all over a parking lot in Liberty after hauling my ATV to a club ride.
 
If I opt to make a permanent repair the cost will be $700-$1,000 (not including labor). On top of this I am currently driving around with the check engine light on due to a faulty oxygen sensor (another $200) which my mechanic says shouldn't be an issue unless I notice it not running normal.
 
A little background . . . this is my "spare" vehicle. Generally I only use it for camping, hauling firewood/lumber/ATVs/sleds or for use on those slippery days in the winter. It is not my main vehicle, but on the days I use it generally I'm hauling something or going somewhere on a trip . . . it is not the vehicle I drive around the town of Unity.  
 
If you've done the math it is about 10 years old and has 114,000 or so miles on it.
 
So my question . . . keep it and fix it up . . . or sell it while it still has some value ($4,500-$5,500 to a dealer).  
 
I keep waffling on this issue since:
 
* It is paid for with no car payments every month which is nice since my wife and I are renovating the house
* It's in decent shape and has been reliable until recently
* It has relatively low miles
* I only use it intermittently and it has worked OK for my needs
 
On the other hand:
 
* I keep thinking of the cost to repair it permanently and correctly and wonder if it is worth putting into a vehicle at this age
* I find myself wondering if other components may fail on it and if this is the start to many repair bills
* My needs/wants have changed . . . I could use a pick-up now much more than I could use a SUV
 
So any input . . . any ideas . . . keep it or can it? I honestly go back and forth on this issue . . . one day I'm ready to sell . . . and the next day I think the best thing to do is keep it.
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firefighterjake
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Re: Decisions, decisions
Reply #1 - 07/20/10 at 1:23pm
 
Perhaps I should mention that the replacement vehicle I am strongly considering to replace this vehicle with is a 2008 Ford F-150 with 74K . . . I'm a bit leery on the mileage, but my last vehicle was purchased with this much mileage (albeit it was a Honda Accord) and I would not be using this truck on a daily basis.
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MXZ600NUT
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Re: Decisions, decisions
Reply #2 - 07/20/10 at 2:24pm
 
Considering the vehicle you have (Toyota 4 runner), that it is owned outright, and that you don’t use it as a primary I would fix it permanently and continue to run it with no worries and fix things as they come up. That would be the logical part of me speaking. On the other hand, I’m a car sleeper and get sick of them every couple years and always come up with an excuse to buy something new so if you want a new vehicle go buy one!  
 
In all seriousness, you have a decent car with fairly low miles on it that is made for what you want to do with it. You own it and it needs some repairs that are expected with a vehicle that is 10 years old. This shouldn’t be a reason to dump it.  
 
BTW- the high miles of a ford full size is not the same as high miles on an accord or a 4 runner. Though I wouldn’t be scared of 75K miles on an F-150 of that vintage I can’t say that you shouldn’t compare what you might spend in repairs in the next 4 years compared to if you kept your 4 runner. Probably not much of a difference.  
 
I see lots of consumers trade in between 50-85K. They do this obviously to get good money(sweet spot), but also to avoid doing tires, brakes, shocks, struts, etc. Most of these vehicles get traded with little to no work done. Don’t be that guy that spends 20K on a used truck only to have to put in a couple more grand over the next year or so…..
 
Anyway, just my thoughts but again I don’t take any advice from anyone or use any of the tools I have hear at work when I buy a car. I buy what makes me happy.  
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Re: Decisions, decisions
Reply #3 - 07/20/10 at 6:46pm
 
Quote from MXZ600NUT on 07/20/10 at 2:24pm:
Considering the vehicle you have (Toyota 4 runner), that it is owned outright, and that you don’t use it as a primary I would fix it permanently and continue to run it with no worries and fix things as they come up. That would be the logical part of me speaking. On the other hand, I’m a car sleeper and get sick of them every couple years and always come up with an excuse to buy something new so if you want a new vehicle go buy one!

In all seriousness, you have a decent car with fairly low miles on it that is made for what you want to do with it. You own it and it needs some repairs that are expected with a vehicle that is 10 years old. This shouldn’t be a reason to dump it.

BTW- the high miles of a ford full size is not the same as high miles on an accord or a 4 runner. Though I wouldn’t be scared of 75K miles on an F-150 of that vintage I can’t say that you shouldn’t compare what you might spend in repairs in the next 4 years compared to if you kept your 4 runner. Probably not much of a difference.

I see lots of consumers trade in between 50-85K. They do this obviously to get good money(sweet spot), but also to avoid doing tires, brakes, shocks, struts, etc. Most of these vehicles get traded with little to no work done. Don’t be that guy that spends 20K on a used truck only to have to put in a couple more grand over the next year or so…..

Anyway, just my thoughts but again I don’t take any advice from anyone or use any of the tools I have hear at work when I buy a car. I buy what makes me happy.

 
Good advice there.    
 
I'm of the somewhat frugal mindset and believe that if you own the vehicle outright with no payments, the motor and transmission are good, and rust hasn't attacked any other major component then I'd fix it and keep driving for the next year or two.    
 
If you look at it this way, a few months worth of vehicle payments and the lower insurance cost will pay for the repairs to the vehicle you have now, then drive it for the rest of the year and bank the money you would have been sending toward vehicle payments.
 
Any chance the student workshop that rebuilt your sled would be able to do the work on the rear diff for less?   Maybe look for a used differential casing or entire rear diff to save some coin as well?   Also, 02 sensors are quite simple, usually a plug and play if you have the right sensor socket to remove and replace.  Online parts vendors are often less expensive than local dealers, and could save you 20-40 bucks on the part cost if your mechanic is willing to go that route.
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Re: Decisions, decisions
Reply #4 - 07/20/10 at 10:39pm
 
I'm thinking along the same lines as skidor.  That F-150 will probably come with approx. a $300/month payment plus extra on your insurance for full coverage.  In 3 - 4 months the payments along with the extra insurance cost will cover the Toyota repairs and you'll still be looking at 4 1/2 to 5 1/2 years worth in truck payments, money tyhat is no longer being put into your realestate investment.  I would suggest fixing the Toyota and running it for what your intentions are, a spare beater.
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Re: Decisions, decisions
Reply #5 - 07/20/10 at 11:20pm
 
Here's a pretty good 02 sensor DIY:
 
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/4Runner/tech/O2_Sensor/
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Re: Decisions, decisions
Reply #6 - 07/20/10 at 11:31pm
 
Keep it, beaters come in handy all the time Wink
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Re: Decisions, decisions
Reply #7 - 07/21/10 at 7:35am
 
Quote from Skidor on 07/20/10 at 11:20pm:
Here's a pretty good 02 sensor DIY:

http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/4Runner/tech/O2_Sensor/

 
 
Good link . . . the garage said it was the second oxygen sensor so it appears as though it isn't crucially important to replace since it simply monitors the cat . . . just have to put up with the "check engine" light if and when it reappears.
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Re: Decisions, decisions
Reply #8 - 07/21/10 at 7:41am
 
Thanks for the opinions folks . . .
 
A few minor items . . .
 
I actually checked insurance costs and discovered that the insurance cost to replace this vehicle is pretty much the same . . . actually the newer vehicle would be $5 or $6 less so that is not as big a factor.
 
Also . . . I don't know if I would call this a "beater" -- more like a second "recreational" vehicle used as a spare . . . or for hauling the toys . . . and lumber and firewood.  
 
I think I'm slowly coming to a decision though . . . I think what it all boils down to is I would like a reliable vehicle and if my 4Runner fits that bill it may make sense to keep it . . . and so I'm going to make an appointment with the garage and get it up on the lift to see if there is any other excessive rusting (i.e. the rusting on the frame other Toyotas had for example) or if the mechanics foresee any potential areas that may break (of course this is just guess-timating on their part).  
 
If the 4Runner gets a relatively clean bill of health I'll most likely keep it for another year or two and will simply replace the rear differential (I have found one source that sells them for $700 and may check the salvage yards) . . . if the mechanics see anything that looks sketchy I may go for a new vehicle.
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Re: Decisions, decisions
Reply #9 - 07/21/10 at 6:52pm
 
Quote from firefighterjake on 07/21/10 at 7:41am:
Thanks for the opinions folks . . .

A few minor items . . .

I actually checked insurance costs and discovered that the insurance cost to replace this vehicle is pretty much the same . . . actually the newer vehicle would be $5 or $6 less so that is not as big a factor.

Also . . . I don't know if I would call this a "beater" -- more like a second "recreational" vehicle used as a spare . . . or for hauling the toys . . . and lumber and firewood.

I think I'm slowly coming to a decision though . . . I think what it all boils down to is I would like a reliable vehicle and if my 4Runner fits that bill it may make sense to keep it . . . and so I'm going to make an appointment with the garage and get it up on the lift to see if there is any other excessive rusting (i.e. the rusting on the frame other Toyotas had for example) or if the mechanics foresee any potential areas that may break (of course this is just guess-timating on their part).

If the 4Runner gets a relatively clean bill of health I'll most likely keep it for another year or two and will simply replace the rear differential (I have found one source that sells them for $700 and may check the salvage yards) . . . if the mechanics see anything that looks sketchy I may go for a new vehicle.

 
Smart move. May cost an hour or two of labor, but well worth it.
 
 One of my pet peeves is registration costs. The 2008 will be about $500+/-, your 2000 is probably $170 or less. just another cost. I have the means and wants to buy a 3/4 ton crew diesel. Something a year or two old, but when I look at the registration costs, it blows my mind. For about the same excise tax on that 3/4 ton crew, I can register a dump truck and make money with it. Just another wonderful cost of life in Maine.
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Re: Decisions, decisions
Reply #10 - 07/21/10 at 10:14pm
 
Quote from firefighterjake on 07/21/10 at 7:41am:
Thanks for the opinions folks . . .

A few minor items . . .

I actually checked insurance costs and discovered that the insurance cost to replace this vehicle is pretty much the same . . . actually the newer vehicle would be $5 or $6 less so that is not as big a factor.

Also . . . I don't know if I would call this a "beater" -- more like a second "recreational" vehicle used as a spare . . . or for hauling the toys . . . and lumber and firewood.

I think I'm slowly coming to a decision though . . . I think what it all boils down to is I would like a reliable vehicle and if my 4Runner fits that bill it may make sense to keep it . . . and so I'm going to make an appointment with the garage and get it up on the lift to see if there is any other excessive rusting (i.e. the rusting on the frame other Toyotas had for example) or if the mechanics foresee any potential areas that may break (of course this is just guess-timating on their part).

If the 4Runner gets a relatively clean bill of health I'll most likely keep it for another year or two and will simply replace the rear differential (I have found one source that sells them for $700 and may check the salvage yards) . . . if the mechanics see anything that looks sketchy I may go for a new vehicle.

 
 
The insurance on the 2008 F-150 is actually less than the 2000 4runner?  That's odd.  And I was assuming you had only liability on the 4runner, while you would have to carry full coverage on the F-150 due to the loan.  Good luck with your decision.
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firefighterjake
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Re: Decisions, decisions
Reply #11 - 07/22/10 at 6:45am
 
Quote from Blazin on 07/21/10 at 10:14pm:
Quote from firefighterjake on 07/21/10 at 7:41am:
Thanks for the opinions folks . . .

A few minor items . . .

I actually checked insurance costs and discovered that the insurance cost to replace this vehicle is pretty much the same . . . actually the newer vehicle would be $5 or $6 less so that is not as big a factor.

Also . . . I don't know if I would call this a "beater" -- more like a second "recreational" vehicle used as a spare . . . or for hauling the toys . . . and lumber and firewood.

I think I'm slowly coming to a decision though . . . I think what it all boils down to is I would like a reliable vehicle and if my 4Runner fits that bill it may make sense to keep it . . . and so I'm going to make an appointment with the garage and get it up on the lift to see if there is any other excessive rusting (i.e. the rusting on the frame other Toyotas had for example) or if the mechanics foresee any potential areas that may break (of course this is just guess-timating on their part).

If the 4Runner gets a relatively clean bill of health I'll most likely keep it for another year or two and will simply replace the rear differential (I have found one source that sells them for $700 and may check the salvage yards) . . . if the mechanics see anything that looks sketchy I may go for a new vehicle.



The insurance on the 2008 F-150 is actually less than the 2000 4runner?  That's odd.  And I was assuming you had only liability on the 4runner, while you would have to carry full coverage on the F-150 due to the loan.  Good luck with your decision.

 
I actually have full coverage on the 4Runner . . . although I may knock that back down to just liability. Nevertheless I was a bit surprised to find that the full coverage on both a newer Ford and older Toyota was so close.
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Re: Decisions, decisions
Reply #12 - 07/22/10 at 8:51am
 
Im glad I kept full coverage on my car after it was paid off,to me whats an extra $30 a month,specially we it was totaled,was so glad I had full coverage,I would have been screwed!! But then we didnt have a second vehicle either.
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Re: Decisions, decisions
Reply #13 - 07/23/10 at 7:58am
 
Quote from firefighterjake on 07/22/10 at 6:45am:
Quote from Blazin on 07/21/10 at 10:14pm:
Quote from firefighterjake on 07/21/10 at 7:41am:
Thanks for the opinions folks . . .

A few minor items . . .

I actually checked insurance costs and discovered that the insurance cost to replace this vehicle is pretty much the same . . . actually the newer vehicle would be $5 or $6 less so that is not as big a factor.

Also . . . I don't know if I would call this a "beater" -- more like a second "recreational" vehicle used as a spare . . . or for hauling the toys . . . and lumber and firewood.

I think I'm slowly coming to a decision though . . . I think what it all boils down to is I would like a reliable vehicle and if my 4Runner fits that bill it may make sense to keep it . . . and so I'm going to make an appointment with the garage and get it up on the lift to see if there is any other excessive rusting (i.e. the rusting on the frame other Toyotas had for example) or if the mechanics foresee any potential areas that may break (of course this is just guess-timating on their part).

If the 4Runner gets a relatively clean bill of health I'll most likely keep it for another year or two and will simply replace the rear differential (I have found one source that sells them for $700 and may check the salvage yards) . . . if the mechanics see anything that looks sketchy I may go for a new vehicle.



The insurance on the 2008 F-150 is actually less than the 2000 4runner?  That's odd.  And I was assuming you had only liability on the 4runner, while you would have to carry full coverage on the F-150 due to the loan.  Good luck with your decision.


I actually have full coverage on the 4Runner . . . although I may knock that back down to just liability. Nevertheless I was a bit surprised to find that the full coverage on both a newer Ford and older Toyota was so close.

 
Thats because the '00 Toyota is worth more than the '08 Ford Grin
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Re: Decisions, decisions
Reply #14 - 07/26/10 at 8:45am
 
Thanks for the input guys . . . on Friday I had the garage put the 4Runner on the lift and give me their assessment . . . and their assessment sealed the deal.
 
Mechanic said there was no rust on the body and other than my rear differential and muffler he said the rust underneath wasn't bad at all for a Toyota or any other vehicle . . . more over he said he was pretty confident in his patch job on the differential so it made my decision easier.
 
At this point I'm keeping the 4Runner and will most likely run it for at least another year or two . . . in the meantime I figure I may start putting what I would have paid for monthly payments into savings for use as a down payment . . . and who knows . . . in another year or two I may even consider GM/Chevy . . . or a Toyota . . . for a future pick-up. Thanks again for the advice.
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Re: Decisions, decisions
Reply #15 - 07/26/10 at 10:20pm
 
Quote from TT600 on 07/23/10 at 7:58am:
Quote from firefighterjake on 07/22/10 at 6:45am:
Quote from Blazin on 07/21/10 at 10:14pm:
Quote from firefighterjake on 07/21/10 at 7:41am:
Thanks for the opinions folks . . .

A few minor items . . .

I actually checked insurance costs and discovered that the insurance cost to replace this vehicle is pretty much the same . . . actually the newer vehicle would be $5 or $6 less so that is not as big a factor.

Also . . . I don't know if I would call this a "beater" -- more like a second "recreational" vehicle used as a spare . . . or for hauling the toys . . . and lumber and firewood.

I think I'm slowly coming to a decision though . . . I think what it all boils down to is I would like a reliable vehicle and if my 4Runner fits that bill it may make sense to keep it . . . and so I'm going to make an appointment with the garage and get it up on the lift to see if there is any other excessive rusting (i.e. the rusting on the frame other Toyotas had for example) or if the mechanics foresee any potential areas that may break (of course this is just guess-timating on their part).

If the 4Runner gets a relatively clean bill of health I'll most likely keep it for another year or two and will simply replace the rear differential (I have found one source that sells them for $700 and may check the salvage yards) . . . if the mechanics see anything that looks sketchy I may go for a new vehicle.



The insurance on the 2008 F-150 is actually less than the 2000 4runner?  That's odd.  And I was assuming you had only liability on the 4runner, while you would have to carry full coverage on the F-150 due to the loan.  Good luck with your decision.


I actually have full coverage on the 4Runner . . . although I may knock that back down to just liability. Nevertheless I was a bit surprised to find that the full coverage on both a newer Ford and older Toyota was so close.


Thats because the '00 Toyota is worth more than the '08 Ford Grin

 
 
I knew that was coming eventually Grin
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Re: Decisions, decisions
Reply #16 - 07/26/10 at 10:54pm
 
Quote from firefighterjake on 07/26/10 at 8:45am:
Thanks for the input guys . . . on Friday I had the garage put the 4Runner on the lift and give me their assessment . . . and their assessment sealed the deal.

Mechanic said there was no rust on the body and other than my rear differential and muffler he said the rust underneath wasn't bad at all for a Toyota or any other vehicle . . . more over he said he was pretty confident in his patch job on the differential so it made my decision easier.

At this point I'm keeping the 4Runner and will most likely run it for at least another year or two . . . in the meantime I figure I may start putting what I would have paid for monthly payments into savings for use as a down payment . . . and who knows . . . in another year or two I may even consider GM/Chevy . . . or a Toyota . . . for a future pick-up. Thanks again for the advice.

 
Good choice. My 98 honda just turned over 365K
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Re: Decisions, decisions
Reply #17 - 07/29/10 at 1:47pm
 
Quote from flyingcow on 07/21/10 at 6:52pm:
One of my pet peeves is registration costs. The 2008 will be about $500+/-, your 2000 is probably $170 or less. just another cost. I have the means and wants to buy a 3/4 ton crew diesel. Something a year or two old, but when I look at the registration costs, it blows my mind. For about the same excise tax on that 3/4 ton crew, I can register a dump truck and make money with it. Just another wonderful cost of life in Maine.

 
You don't even want to know what it is going to cost me to register my 2010 Leftover GMC, I just picked up... I could have made 2+ months of payments with that much money! What a joke, the Excise tax going by Sticker Price in this state...  At least my town is really good about taking care of the roads... getting some good out of all that expense. Must be getting close to registering everything in VT or FL one of these years, and just becoming a seasonal resident.
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Re: Decisions, decisions
Reply #18 - 07/29/10 at 6:11pm
 
Quote from Kahlua on 07/29/10 at 1:47pm:
Quote from flyingcow on 07/21/10 at 6:52pm:
One of my pet peeves is registration costs. The 2008 will be about $500+/-, your 2000 is probably $170 or less. just another cost. I have the means and wants to buy a 3/4 ton crew diesel. Something a year or two old, but when I look at the registration costs, it blows my mind. For about the same excise tax on that 3/4 ton crew, I can register a dump truck and make money with it. Just another wonderful cost of life in Maine.


You don't even want to know what it is going to cost me to register my 2010 Leftover GMC, I just picked up... I could have made 2+ months of payments with that much money! What a joke, the Excise tax going by Sticker Price in this state...  At least my town is really good about taking care of the roads... getting some good out of all that expense. Must be getting close to registering everything in VT or FL one of these years, and just becoming a seasonal resident.

 
Got the plow attached yet?   Grin
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Re: Decisions, decisions
Reply #19 - 08/04/10 at 7:55pm
 
Everything's done but the push plates... didn't want to cut the valence yet. Might look for a used one from junkyard to cut and keep the new one for summer use if I decide to take the plates off in the summer. Got a second set of rims for the winter tires too.
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Re: Decisions, decisions
Reply #20 - 08/04/10 at 8:20pm
 
Quote from Kahlua on 08/04/10 at 7:55pm:
Everything's done but the push plates... didn't want to cut the valence yet. Might look for a used one from junkyard to cut and keep the new one for summer use if I decide to take the plates off in the summer. Got a second set of rims for the winter tires too.

 
I think new ones are under 50 bucks aftermarket.
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Re: Decisions, decisions
Reply #21 - 08/04/10 at 10:13pm
 
Quote from Kahlua on 08/04/10 at 7:55pm:
Everything's done but the push plates... didn't want to cut the valence yet. Might look for a used one from junkyard to cut and keep the new one for summer use if I decide to take the plates off in the summer. Got a second set of rims for the winter tires too.

 
 
Come on Harry, you know this thread needs a photo of the new ride!!!
 
 
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Re: Decisions, decisions
Reply #22 - 08/07/10 at 10:48pm
 
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Re: Decisions, decisions
Reply #23 - 08/07/10 at 10:53pm
 
Quote from MXZ600NUT on 08/04/10 at 8:20pm:
Quote from Kahlua on 08/04/10 at 7:55pm:
Everything's done but the push plates... didn't want to cut the valence yet. Might look for a used one from junkyard to cut and keep the new one for summer use if I decide to take the plates off in the summer. Got a second set of rims for the winter tires too.


I think new ones are under 50 bucks aftermarket.

 
Point me where to get one for $50!  Cool
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Go Team Maine 22 & 44!
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blackcat
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Re: Decisions, decisions
Reply #24 - 08/08/10 at 11:21am
 
nice rig
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Alcohaulinass

It's not about the miles - all about the smiles
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